Good question
Mike Leake wonders to what degree our evangelistic efforts should appeal to the sinner's selfishness. Here's a sample:
Consider Jim. Jim is ridiculously selfish (like most of us). We send a team from our church to canvas our neighborhood. A team stops at Jim’s house. We ask Jim why he does not come to church and we ask what it would take to get him to church. We find that Jim is not the only one that has these problems with the church. His suggestions seem to resonate with many of the unbelievers in our area. Here are his suggestions:You can leave your thoughts in the comments section of Mike's post.
1. I hate long sermons; give me 20 minutes maximum.
2. I don’t like boring songs but I also don’t like repetitious cheesy love song either.
3. Never ask me for money; I can stay home and listen to TV preacher’s do that.
4. I want people to be friendly but not overly desperate and acknowledging me in front of everyone else. Notice me but not too much.
5. If I have to walk too far or park in a cramped space just forget me coming. I face traffic to get to work on Monday, I don’t want to do the same on Sunday.
These are his suggestions. So, what is the church to do with them? Do we say, “well he’s a lost guy and lost people are not to dictate what we do in the church”? Or, do we say, “he’s a lost guy and if we want to reach him then we need to reach him where he is at”?
posted by Milton Stanley at 11:20 AM
8 Comments:
Not fair...you didn't give your opinion! That is a hard one.
I do think we should listen to the people we are trying to serve to some degree. We do need to address parking problems etc.We don't want to make it more difficult than it already is to come to church. ie I have often wondered why churches have their contemporary services early in the morning when most college students don't get up until 11!
Jesus went where the people were. Paul often did too-(for evangelism)-even if it meant going to synogues, or places of discussions--the market place. But, I am thinking that once the churches were established they followed basic things--reading scripture, singing, preaching etc.This was a place for believers to meet, be fed, fellowship and hear the word. I think what is important is that there is life in the church. ..the Holy Spirit is there and at work.
My oldest son's church (which is mainly 18-32 year olders) has sermons that last over an hour...sometimes and hour and 15 minutes. BUT they keep growing...WHY? I have often wondered why. The preaching is such that I can listen that long without any trouble---my son says he doesn't even notice the time...it is because the spirit of God is present and the preacher has a gift of being able to talk things through using scripture making good application etc --he is not afraid to step on toes, either. And he is not afraid to address any subject---he just has kids leave if the sujbect is not appropriate for their age.And yes he has preached on sex using the Song of Solomon.
Churches are asking, why are we not attracting the younger generation. This does need some real thinking---Piper's church attracts all ages (I believe). I am going to attend a conference in Durham called Resurgence of the Local Church. This will be in early June--perhaps there will be some answers to this question you pose--Piper will be one of the teachers!
Actually (yaah, I am rambling), my youngest son (22) attends a church
that has long sermons too and traditional hymns and they have a great mix of ages--it is a large church and the preacher is Scotish (sinclair Ferguson).
Actually, what attracts unbelievers to church may be believing friends--people that really care and listen. People that have a dynamic relationship evident in their lives. The church meetings themselves are more for equipping believers to minister (although there is always some application to unbelievers who may be visiting). So perhaps the church (which is after all for Christians to come and worship!!) should be catering to the needs of the believers and if the church is doing a good job of this the needs of unbelievers will be met too (how is that for a good cop out).
Sooo to sum up, the more I think about it the more I think that church is a place for believers to worship and to be built up for ministering. When Christians go out into the world and minister, unbelievers will be drawn in....Actually that is how I came to know the Lord when I was 16--a believing fellow student and I would talk for hours as we rode the bus to and from school. I went to her church because she kept inviting me to and there I saw a radical difference in the people. God used their obvious joy and delight in God and in life to began a work in me. OK==better stop here---give us your opinion, will ya??
thanks for the link...
You're welcome, Mike. Thanks for the post.
Kim, I didn't give me opinion for several reasons: 1) I wanted to open up discussion, not shut it down or point it in a certain direction (Thanks much for rising to the occasion and giving a well thought-out answer); 2) any answer I gave would have such an on-the-one-hand-but-on-the-other-hand quality to it that I'm afraid it would simply come across as wishy-washy; and 3) there's a whole lot to say on this topic, and the comment box is really small. But since you ask, I will give a sort of answer in outline.
First, we see from the NT that the apostles did adjust the form of their message to best meet their listeners where they were. This was true of Peter at Pentecost, Paul in Athens, and in other examples in Acts. Christians ought to do the same today, at least as far as using language and terminology that's understandable to the so-called unchurched. In general, I'm inclined to think that lots of suits and ties, thees and thous are not very attractive to most people outside the church (although even here, I've heard that a substantial number of young adults are now actually looking for more high-church worship, or church that looks like church is traditionally supposed to look).
At the same time, the process of evangelism should be more than a simple presentation in which we talk someone into doing something. It is a process of enculturating someone from the realm of darkness into the Kingdom of God. For that reason, we need to not back away from being the church; we need to welcome souls into our assemblies and encourage them to serve the King with us. For that reason we need to not back away from terms like sin and sacrifice. The church belongs to Christ, and all are being shaped into his image.
Also, a principle that has always stuck with me is what someone once said: "What we attract people with we attract them to. In other words, if we offer volleyball, pumped-up, rocked-out worship music, espresso, and lots of sermons that encourage people to keep thinking about themselves, why should we wonder that they never seriously begin thinking about Christ and his Kingdom? If we attract people with selfishness, we reinforce that selfishness--attract them to selfishness, if you will.
I used to be a "give me something I can use" preacher and consumer of preaching, but reading the works of men like Karl Barth, Charles Campbell, Hans Frei, Tim Keller, Paul of Tarsus (1 Corinthians), John Piper, Bob Spencer, Michael Spencer and Jared Wilson (how's that for a range?), I've become convinced that preaching (and by extension, the whole evangelistic message of the church) should not be so much about "practical" issues as about Jesus Christ and him crucified. I'm ashamed to admit that for years I used to be bored with preachers who simply preached Christ. I thought these preachers were out of touch; I wanted something "practical." Looking back, I see that I was simply childish and sinful, yet I expected preachers to bend to my will. Praise God they didn't then, and I pray preachers today don't bend to equally childish demands either. Probably the most difficult aspect of my own preaching has been resisting the pressure to be practical, and simply preaching Jesus Christ. John Piper recently expressed this idea quite well when he wrote, "I do not aim to be immediately practical but eternally helpful."
Bottom line: there has to be a certain readiness in the heart of a hearer for evangelism to begin to take hold. If that readiness is not there, no amount of bells and whistles will help.
And here's one more on-the-other-hand: That doesn't mean we simply write off the unprepared, either. Christians can help prepare the ground of hearts through bringing Christ's love (in practical ways) to "the least of these."
I think I mostly agree with you ;-).
The more I reflect on all of it, however, I think I would see the main purpose of the gathering of the church for worship... a place for CHRISTIANS to worship --yes some unbelievers may and will be there-- But it is a place of worship.It is also a place for the believers to be built up for ministry and for the unity of the faith (as Eph 4:11ff--"And he gave the appostles, the propets, the evangelists, the pastors, and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ......speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head into Christ...." So what you are saying about preaching Christ-yes-that is declared here in Ephesians-He is who we worship.We want the fullness of Christ Himself.
I think most evangelism takes place outside of the church--believers going out into the world....Yes unbelievers come to the church as a result of this.
As far as the practical aspects of preaching....I guess I might disagree a bit with you?, but then I may not really be understanding what you are saying. I look at what Jesus preached and it was oh so practical. He preached about who he was, yes. He preached about hell, heaven, money, lust, love, monetary needs, children, not worrying over food/cothes, etc --all practical stuff . I think we are where God wants us to be in the preaching if there is an exegetic preaching ministry that preaches the whole word of God--in that way God is glorified, the doctrine and practical applications all are there as well as the exaltation of Christ in all for he is glorified in the whole word of God .
Hey thanks for your blog--it is good to reflect on all of this stuff--I like blogs that make me think, and yours does.
Thanks for your comments. You give me something to think about regarding the content of Jesus' preaching.
I agree that the worship assembly should be about worship more than evangelism. We can see in the NT how these two issues intersect in 1 Cor. 14:21-25. If you're interested, you can read my thoughts on those verses in my sermon text, Spiritual Gifts and the Great Commission.
Thanks again for commenting. Peace.
I looked at your sermon--I think we both agree ;-)
I also like what you said in your comment here about the process of evangelism.
Glad to hear it. And thanks for taking time to read my sermon text. Peace.
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