Transforming Sermons: He's not our example

Sunday, September 17, 2006

He's not our example

Mark Lauterbach has written a wonderfully simple explanation about why much of our teaching and preaching on Jesus' temptation in the wilderness is wrong.

18 Comments:

yes2truth aka Charles Crosby said...: Mr Stanley,

Perhaps you would like to post a link to my blog that exposes Mr Lauterbach for what he is: A ravening wolf and blind guide.

http://realchristianswherearethey.blogspot.com/; 2:59 AM, September 18, 2006
Michael Russell said...: Milton:

"Mr Sinless" above sure sounds like a self-righteous prig: I looked at the two links provided: one attacks Mark and the other is all over John Piper. In answering his own question re where are the real Christians, he says,

"Yes, where are they? For I have travelled across cyber space now for several years and all I have found are men of religion, 21st century Pharisees and assorted Bible intellectuals and theologians. All without exception are pontificating on Holy Scripture, yet without Spiritual discernment. Re my first post: As a True Believer you can only be Redeemed not a redeemed sinner. For your sinful past is just that, your past."

One of his posts/blogs is devoted to explaining 1 Jn 1 to all of us too stupid to figure things out for ourselves, so I thought I'd offer a quote from a little further on in the book"

If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.
And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also. - 4.20-21

I'll leave a legitimate comment below in case you want to delete this one. Or his. Or, better yet, both.; 7:55 AM, September 18, 2006
Michael Russell said...: Milton:

I read Mark's post and, while I found it interesting, I also thought it was a bit of "a push" - i.e., an eisogetic reach - to find a parallel with Adam's temptation. Mark's idea is certainly theologically sound, but I'm not sure that's what the gospel writers had in mind at this point. But I could be wrong, of course.

Personally, I find a telling and encouraging example in Christ's temptations in the wilderness (or anywhere else, for that matter). Luke, who greatly emphasizes the humanity of Jesus, makes a point to say that Jesus was "full of the Holy Spirit" in the same verse that propels Him into the wilderness.

When tempted, what did Jesus - full of the Spirit and possessing the Spirit without measure - do in response? Did He stop and pray? Speak in unknown languages? Manifest His glory? No, what Jesus did was quote Scripture: three verses from Deu and the temptation came to an end. Well, for the time being, at least.

That's one of the more important principles I find in the temptation: the need for even the most Spirit-filled Christian to rely on the word of God to deal with temptations. The "sword of the Spirit" is, after all, the word of God, and the process of our sanctification is intimately connected to our knowledge and understanding of Scripture. As we deal with life in the trenches, the Holy Spirit uses our familiarity with the Bible to guide, direct, and - at times - provide a means of escape from temptation.

That, of course, presupposes that we know the Bible well enough to recall or quote appropriate verses, but that's another mini-sermon altogether.; 8:15 AM, September 18, 2006
yes2truth aka Charles Crosby said...: In answer to Mike and just to let you all know that the The Lord says I am sinless - not me.

1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

"1 John 3:3 "And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."

Now Mr Mike, what blaspheming contradiction are you going to dig up to counter The Truth of these scriptures?

As an aside I will also tell you what The Lord says through Paul about men with long hair: 1 Cor 11:14 "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?"

Time for a haircut Mike and while you're at it some serious repentance.

n2sbp; 9:23 AM, September 18, 2006
Michael Russell said...: No2:

Without question there is a need for repentance in my life - unlike yours, of course, since you are sinless - but the picture was taken 35+ years ago, a few years before I trusted Christ as my Savior.

I'll not debate your adduction of Scriptures since I am one of those horrid theologians that you detest. (Of course, we're all theologians, the only difference being whether we are good ones or bad ones.)

So you just continue right along in your self-righteous, proof-texting way and I'll go my way, too. Perhaps we'll see one another one Day.

Or perhaps not.; 10:21 AM, September 18, 2006
Pilgrim feet said...: Milton:

Just as long as we don't use it for an excuse to sin, or a crutch for when we do....you know that Grace may abound.

He is our "Ultimate" example at the same time He is our Savior. go figure.....That's why He is God.

What then do we do with the verse that says "Resist the devil, and he will flee from you"?

Is there NO victory in the Cross here on earth?!!?

I think this requires much more study, but I get the original point.

Have an exemplary day. ;-] PF; 10:40 AM, September 18, 2006
Michael Russell said...: Milton:

I want to apologize to you and your readers for the unpleasant exchange between No2 and me. It was inappropriate and unnecessary.

A study of forensic truth in the Book of Romans might have been a better response, but (a) it's not what your post was about and (b) I'm on sabbatical (or supposed to be).

Again, my apologies; 10:51 AM, September 18, 2006
Unknown said...: We've attempted to show the same in these two articles:

Finally an obedient son

Three sons and the devil; 4:33 PM, September 18, 2006
yes2truth aka Charles Crosby said...: "Without question there is a need for repentance in my life - unlike yours, of course, since you are sinless - but the picture was taken 35+ years ago, a few years before I trusted Christ as my Savior."

To repent means to change and The Lord changes us and keeps on changing us, but we don't change us.

Repentance is something we do before Baptism. If we are not repentant, then we have no business getting Baptised. Repentance is an attitude of mind, an attitude the unsaved and lost don't have. This attitude of being willing to change is God given and it is this God given willingness to change, along with indwelling of The Holy Spirit that makes us perfect in The Father's sight.

Your picture has proven to be more significant than I realised. If Christ is your Saviour why were you publishing pictures of your old man or old self? The man that died in the watery grave. I will tell you why because that is how you still see yourself and you are not alone. Most of those in mainstream 'Christianity' see themselves as redeemed sinners when they should really see themselves as Redeemed - period. I am redeemed and therefore perfect in The Father's sight you are a redeemed sinner which in reality is an oxymoron and/or a contradiction in terms and in turn is why you cannot see yourself as perfect. You cannot take on board the completeness of The Lord's sacrifice. This means you are telling God He doesn't know what He is doing and that you cannot possibly be perfect, when all the while you are - if you are Born Again.

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

This scripture means exactly what it says and the fact that you can't get your head round it does not change it. You won't make it go away and ignoring it will not make an atom of difference either.

"I'll not debate your adduction of Scriptures since I am one of those horrid theologians that you detest. (Of course, we're all theologians, the only difference being whether we are good ones or bad ones.)"

I don't debate either, I try to persuade and if the individual is not listening or can't hear (usually the case) then I move on.

All theologians are bad, there is no such thing as a good theologian.
Theology = To study God.

Any human being Born of The Holy Spirit does not need to 'study God' for Jesus Christ or God, if you prefer, resides within that human being, in his heart no less. Now please tell me why a human being blessed in such a way would need to study God? I'll leave you to work that one out. Theology is intellectual bunk.

"So you just continue right along in your self-righteous, proof-texting way and I'll go my way, too. Perhaps we'll see one another one Day."

I cannot be self-righteous, it's impossible, as The Lord has made me righteous which I acknowledge and you don't. Only the righteous - the perfect will inherit the Kingdom of God. If you are not perfect how will you enter The Kingdom of God?

You carry on going your way but sooner or later The Lord will require you to go His Way for He is The Way and your way is your way, not His Way.

"Or perhaps not."

Yes, and this will be the case unless you repent.

n2sbp; 6:42 PM, September 18, 2006
Milton Stanley said...: Wow. What an exchange. Thanks to all of you for your comments. And to my friends by way of reminder I say, "Please don't feed the trolls." Peace.; 7:35 PM, September 18, 2006
Royce Ogle said...: Anyone slightly familiar with the word of God will realize quickly that not every poster or commentor is Christlike.

Perhaps a careful reading of the rest of 1 John, and then 2 John, will show that not only is there sin in the life of one who speaks falsely about brothers and publicly besmirches their names, but that one likely does not know God.

It is one thing to know about God but quite another to "know" Him. "If" the love of God is "shed abroad" in your heart you will have no trouble loving even your enemies and behaving toward others as 2 Cor 13 and Gal 5 suggests.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle; 9:14 PM, September 18, 2006
Michael Russell said...: Milton:

Again, sorry. I know better. I just had a brief interlude of insanity. It's funny, you know, because I work with mentally disturbed people all day long and then drop my guard when I go online, as though everyone online is the epitome of mental health and spiritual maturity. Sometimes, I guess, I can't see the forest because of the tree that has fallen on me.

I hope Royce wasn't referring to me, but maybe he was; if so, maybe I had it coming.

I hope I'm better tomorrow.; 9:33 PM, September 18, 2006
Milton Stanley said...: Not a problem, Mike, and please don't worry about it. On the bright side, the discussion may have sparked readership!; 9:55 PM, September 18, 2006
yes2truth aka Charles Crosby said...: Mr Ogle,

Here is The Lord's teaching on 1 John 1 and Grace.

I suggest you read, mark and inwardly digest it so that you can repent.

The misteaching of 1 John by the ravening wolves of Churchianity is a true wickedness.

http://www.myhopeisinhim.blogspot.com/

http://graceforfreedom.blogspot.com/

n2sbp; 2:53 AM, September 19, 2006
yes2truth aka Charles Crosby said...: Mike,

"I hope I'm better tomorrow."

No chance, for without repentance there is no hope for you.

n2sbp; 2:56 AM, September 19, 2006
yes2truth aka Charles Crosby said...: Mr Stanley,

"Not a problem, Mike, and please don't worry about it. On the bright side, the discussion may have sparked readership!"

Yes, look on the bright side because when you stand before God you will have increased readership to your blog to 'commend' you, but alas that's all!

Insults to a Son of God with silly names (trolls) are also logged in Heaven.

You have been warned Mr Stanley and it's time you joined your 'friends' in repentance.

n2sbp; 3:05 AM, September 19, 2006
yes2truth aka Charles Crosby said...: Mike,

As a PS.

Your latest picture is revealing even more about yourself. It is literally an image of your spiritual condition, I do hope you can see that.

It is also quite amazing how mainstream 'Christians' manage to shoot themselves in the foot everytime.

n2spb; 3:11 AM, September 19, 2006
Pilgrim feet said...: Fellows:

Here are a couple of real great verses and I'll just lay them out there.

James 3:5
Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

Proverbs 18:19
A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle.

Proverbs 27:6
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

1 Peter 2:17
Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

I know the last one by heart, because my father made me memorize it as a child, along with my 5 siblings.

Peace. Pilgrim Feet; 6:37 PM, September 19, 2006